Renegades Podcast Discussion

Notes for discussion of the Obama/Springsteen podcast (and book) "Renegades: Born in the USA".

Obama and Springsteen talk a lot about the American Experiment. In an ideal state, America is a melting pot of people from all nationalities, all cultures. Each person has a voice and a vote, and one vote isn't more valuable than another. In their view, this is why other countries are so interested in America. It's what it stands for.

However, we are drifting away from the ideal. Starting in the 1970s and 80s, with the rise of entertainment TV, the American vision shifted toward Having Stuff and a different vision of success. This new success is defined by your car, your house, your handbag, the stuff you have. It's defined by being at the top of the pyramid. The more people under you, the better. Success at the exclusion of others. Greed is good. As in "Glengarry Glen Ross", first place you get a Cadillac. Second place, steak knives. Third place, you're fired. It's zero-sum game. Win or lose. If you don't get yours at the expense of others, you're not playing correctly. Donald Trump exemplifies this vision of success.

This is very different than the prime story of the 1950s and 60s, where personal success was defined mainly by having a job, or possibly going to college. It meant you would have enough to provide for your family and be respected in your community. The goal posts have changed. In the 50s and 60s, CEOs made ~30x what the average line employee made. Now it's 300x or more.

Springsteen's song "Born in the USA" is a song about a returning Vietnam veteran who faces hostility and indifference upon his return home. The song is powerful because it requires you to hold two opposing views in your mind at the same time. It is both fiercely patriotic and fiercely critical of America. Believing in the American Experiment also requires you to hold these opposing views at the same time.

Obama and Springsteen discuss the way forward as requiring policy changes and adjusting fundamental inequalities. But to achieve that, they say we must develop a new definition of success, and we must begin to tell a new story about what we value as Americans. Only then, can we collectively begin to shift the American Experiment back toward alignment with the American ideal.

Question: Do we have a responsibility, to see both the flaws and the good in others? In institutions? In the country?

Question: Is it possible to bring America into alignment with the ideal? (Was it ever aligned?)

Question: Will the American Experiment succeed or fail? Has it already failed?

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